Committee of the Whole - 10 Jan 2023


1: Welcome to the Squamish Nation Traditional Territory
2: ADOPTION OF AGENDA
3: MOTION TO CLOSE
4: DELEGATIONS
4.i: Member of Legislative Assembly, Jordan Sturdy, West Vancouver - Sea to Sky
5: STAFF REPORTS
5.A: COMMUNITY PLANNING AND SUSTAINABILITY
5.A.i: Garibaldi Estates Neighbourhood Plan
5.A.ii: Community Climate Action Plan (CCAP) Implementation Activities: January 2023 Update
6: TERMINATION
Member of Legislative Assembly Jordan Sturdy
0:00:00 (0:48:02)

At the council meeting, Member of Legislative Assembly Jordan Sturdy presented an overview of the MLA role, which includes constituency work, advocacy, bills, and participation in provincial legislation. The process of getting answers from the ministry about issues that communities are concerned about starts in mid-March and runs through the end of the spring session. The speaker discussed how an MLA's role is partisan versus non-partisan, and the importance of operating as a team in both the municipal and provincial setting. Regional Transit and Child Care were prioritized and advocated for, but rising construction costs are making it difficult to achieve goals. The speaker also discussed hazardous intersections, such as Cleveland 99, Alice Lake, and Momcom, and the congestion caused by provincial tourism. The biggest issue is the limited capacity of the road due to one lane in either direction, so Regional Transit is the best option to manage this capacity in the short term. The speaker discussed the need to maintain capacity, focus on creating well-paying jobs in the community, manage demand for camping sites and trails in Squamish, and make a submission to the Competition Bureau to address fuel prices. Public comments focused on the need to prioritize and push for solutions to be implemented sooner than later to address hazardous intersections, the importance of regional transit services for reducing emissions, accessing resources, and providing an evacuation route in the event of flooding, and the need for good data and monitoring infrastructure to count traffic.

John French
0:00:00 (0:01:19)

for Tuesday January the 10th we've actually already been hard at work and adopted the agenda for this meeting as we had a closed session that we've concluded and now we are into the open portion of our committee of the whole meeting and for those that are joining us online welcome to the Squamish Nation traditional territory and we at this point are on to section number seven of our agenda and that's delegations and this morning we have the honor of member of legislative assembly joining us for our area Jordan sturdy representing West Vancouver see the sky MLA sturdy thank you very much for being here with us this morning oh yeah I should also point out councilor John French and I am the acting mayor for the month of January so I'll be chairing this morning's Committee of the whole meeting so MLA sturdy understand that we're going to kick things off with a bit of an overview of the MLA role so I'll turn it over to you so you can provide that for us

SPEAKER_04
0:01:19 (0:13:39)

thank you yeah I thought it was probably worthwhile to better understand sort of the various parts of the role of an MLA especially for some of you who maybe haven't we haven't interacted before but so I'll just give you some a brief overview here there's a couple of different things that we do first and foremost as an MLA your work is around constituency work so it's around we're there thank you we're there to work on behalf of the citizens of the region of on a variety of different things so what does constituency work entail if you have a concern or a challenge or an issue with work safe with the residential tenancy Branch with not be able to move through with front counter BC with permitting with ICBC with the health authority with um with VC Hydro with a variety of different anything to do with the provincial government and as a citizen as a resident you have an issue with it that you're not able to resolve then that's one of the basic things that a constituency office or an mla's office does is help work these issues through with um with government and it's often not about the to some of it's about advocacy for a certain outcome but oftentimes it's really just getting files moving and saying let's get a decision on this is taking too long and but it could be anything with the constituency work other the another chunk of the mla's role is advocacy so and some of that stuff we talked about earlier in the in the in the closed meeting this morning but for issues for the District of Squamish but be it for industry or be it for Community groups be it for the region as a whole Regional Transit would be a classic there but advocacy work on provincial Ministries Regional Transit that another one that's an important one that I was going to emphasize a little bit later was that Vancouver Coastal Health strategic infrastructure plan for the Sea to Sky this is something that has been on the in the books for since 2019 I think and has been pushed out and delayed and delayed and was just in conversations with VCH last week about that timeline where is it when are we going to see deliverables on that um other health care issues infrastructure issues BC housing advocacy you know the case you guys have the district has a has a piece of land that is looking for BC housing participation and is stalled out so how do we help move that type of thing forward Modi issues and I think we've got a plethora of Modi issues and comments BC Parks flynnrow wreck sites and trails forestry Economic Development etc so the those are sort of higher level advocacy pieces not on a constituent basis but on a sort of a broader basis then another role for mlas is the role around bills so there's a number of different types of bills there's private bills and then private members bills and I've put forward both so we one of them as some of you will recall on the on the quest piece Quest the legislation which created quest I gave them a waiver on taxation for land they owned well they don't own that land anymore so they were subject to full taxation full property Taxation and we with in coordination with the District of Squamish and the and the and Quest put forward a private a private bill that changed that piece of legislation to allow them to get an exemption on lease land because it was it was important for the for the company to be or the university for its survival so or other pieces where I put for order piece of private legislation on the on a Transit Commission makeup so in the case of a Regional Transit Authority the fact that the right now only elected officials from local government can serve on a Transit Commission it was the one of the next things if as we go forward and are successful in developing a regional transit service of our partners also include First Nations and they are currently not eligible to sit on a Transit Commission so I put forward a piece of private legislation and working with the our private members legislation working with the Authority or the clerk's office to develop that legislation that fit within in our existing legislation to make an amendment to that all that said we put forward this legislation and it's only it's up to government to call it to debate it so it's in there it's introduced it hasn't gone beyond first reading and I'll and then it dies with each session so I'll be reintroducing that in February or March and I will also put forward a one on crownland leases and because right now Crown Land residential leases can the rates are a function of the assessed values and assessed values has gone have gone up so the province is charging rent on residential land just outside the District of Squamish Paradise Valley in particular but Squamish Valley and in other places around the province the province has created a situation where they're seeing rent increases in the 50 75 100 150 percent range which is illegal for any other landlord in the province and the province doesn't seem to understand that they oh well what might what the legislation I put forward was that they be the province is subject to the same maximum rent increases they impose on all of the landlords which is basically well it was CPI but no it's less than CPI so again trying to provide solutions that are reasonable and that serve the community overall but that so those are some of the private bills but then there's also the role of an MLA in managing or in participating in provincial legislation the way it works is similar to the pro to Municipal legislation you got introduction or first reading which is really just here it is that's it nothing there's no debate on it second reading is debate so you'll have speakers on both sides speaking to the benefits or the problems the challenges of you either support it we don't support it however it happens to play out depending on what that piece of legislation is and then third or reading is committee stage and that's where that's where the meat is that's where when as we talked about earlier we have a bill like the Health Professions bill which with 406 646 clauses and what we will do is go through each one of the each Clause of that bill and explore it and now some of them you really you bypass some of them you know if you're adding a comma you're it really is it doesn't really change things particularly but some of them need an understanding of what are the implications of this or suggestion in terms of changes so you go through on a clause by Clause basis and that is normally handled by the critic of that particular Ministry and or a Critic and a critics team and yeah and so that and then the fourth there's really a fourth reading it's a it's um Royal Ascent so that's where usually towards the end of a session sometimes part way through a session the lieutenant governor and Cal the lieutenant governor will come in and I doth the left what do they say the lieutenant governor doth Ascent so the lieutenant governor doesn't actually say anything she comes in sits in the chair and the clerk says on bill this the lieutenant governor dotha sent and the lieutenant governor yeah and then that's that that's the formality of the thing so and then I mentioned the critical so in my case I am the critic for BC Ferries and sort of fish it's actually technically aquaculture but it's more broad than that so that includes in my case the wild salmon initiative water the strategy there's a water strategy that's being developed for the province and then it generally speaking with critics they're looking at tracking provincial initiatives being involved in discussions around or participating as much as possible in issues or provincial initiatives that are within the critics role and caught being available for comment um having Physicians and also informing your caucus colleagues in terms of what the issues are so if a bill comes forward for example a BC Ferries Bill comes forward then it would be my responsibility to understand the issues in that bill what are the implications inform my colleagues than we as a as a opposition caucus would develop a position you have support or not support or considerations of amendments or whatever happens to be and the critic tends is responsible for leading that work we work with um uh critics and mlas generally speaking work with all of with their caucus colleagues and across the board across the aisle in terms of committee work around developing Collective knowledge around developing positions and direction for government and suggestion and then the last piece although there's more than this but the last real significant piece is the budget process so the budget will be introduced towards the end of February this year and then in conjunction or you know at the same time as the legend as legislation is moving through the house and we're led to understand there's going to be some significant amount of legislation which will be introduced this year although we're not privy to what that is nobody actually outside of cabinet and priorities of planning would be familiar and the premier's office would really know what the situation what's going to be proposed because it could be victim conflicts created but the estimates process is actually a very interesting process and it's valuable to all we of us and can talk about this at another time but how we can use the estimates process to better understand government's position or advocate for certain things so budget each Ministry has a budget it's all published it is broken down not down to the pencil level but it's broken down in big chunks and we can look at historical spending current spending proposed spending over the net the fiscal plan which is the next three years and that is that gives us an opportunity to talk about policy to talk about actual dollars but also to talk about Direction and so when Modi comes up for example we have an opportunity now Modi is obviously something that just about every MLA in the whole legislature wants to talk about issues with Modi because it affects pretty much everybody but we'll try and carve out some time to talk about um about Modi priorities in terms of Transportation we'll try and talk about the government's position on The Minister's thoughts on the development of regional transit for the Sea to Sky of Modi and obesity Transit responsibility to talk about the about the north yards and the future of the north yards and what government is intending to do with it and it's a it's a great opportunity where we have the critic as well and pretty and I and mlas that are affected depending on what the issue is and then the minister and depending on the ministry there may be dozens in the health Ministry there is literally dozens of Staff in support so the minister obviously can't be the repository of all information the minister needs their support staff and they gives us an opportunity to really dig down on issues and get try and get specific answers there's obviously some real there's some challenges there in terms of really getting clear and straight answers and sometimes they're the decisions haven't been made but sometimes they don't want to share them either so it's a bit of a game but it it's um it goes on for several months because there's all the Ministries to go through and at the end of the day one they're all they go through the estimates process each Ministry does and then it then that is the actual process for approving the budget overall once all those estimates process have been done but there for our purposes whether it be F Ministry of forest now whether it be energy minds and whatever the name of it it's not petroleum

SPEAKER_00
0:14:59 (0:00:01)

resource anymore it's whatever

SPEAKER_04
0:15:00 (0:01:17)

renew I can't remember the name of the ministry they just changed it but or the Ministry of Health or the Ministry of Education all of these things you know what I need to what's very helpful to me is to understand the issues that your Council your community our communities are concerned about and looking for answers on and that is the best way of getting answers from that the minister and the all the staff that really know the answers so it's a great process and it takes place over it could be a frustrating process too but it takes place from probably starting in mid-march and it'll run right through to the end of the spring session it's usually one of the last things is finished so keep it in mind if you if you think of things that you want to know and answer to that you're not getting or then and then certainly Regional Transit will be another one of those things I'm not saying we're going to get an answer but it'll be interesting to see what happens with the budget coming up in February because that will if there's no money in the budget for Transit if there's no real bump in transit money then we're another year away anyway there's sorry that was a bit of a it went on but that's

John French
0:16:18 (0:00:11)

it we appreciate how it went on very helpful and a great starting point and I know Council has many questions for you so I'm just going to jump right into a council petting Gill go ahead

Chris Pettingill
0:16:29 (0:00:41)

yeah thank you I appreciate that and this question probably has a very long answer but I'm wondering if there's also a shorter answer and you know you ran as an MLA with a party but my understanding is that a constituency office is meant to be very non-partisan regardless of your party affiliate affiliation you get representation and attention when you're in the legislature you're still representing the community but you are somewhat constrained by your party's policy and have some I guess obligation to push that the party's policy for it and I'm just wondering if you can speak a little bit more towards where your role is partisan versus non-partisan or what people can expect

SPEAKER_04
0:17:10 (0:02:38)

yeah that that's a that's a delicate balance I think there's parallels here in a municipal setting we were we operate as a team and you know you can be an outlier you can be the rebel on the team or you can be part of the team I think you find that in the provincial sphere their there are issues that are more holistic that don't necessarily aren't aren't local issues I think on a local basis on a local issue it to me it really doesn't matter we're going to move forward with what I think is the best approach for the community you know an example might be you know things like well I don't want to highlight disparities but Regional Transit for example to push Regional Transit is something that I'm going to do regardless because I think it's the right thing to do it's something that we've been we need to have happen and so it really doesn't matter what other you know where that sits otherwise I think I think generally speaking we all are there for the right reason be it at a political at a provincial level or a municipal level we may have some disagreements there may be nuances but at the end of the day we're all there to look for the best interests of the province in best interest of the people in The Province and I honestly haven't found myself in a place where I where the um where I've been uncomfortable or conflicted by a position that I've had to participate in I'm I feel that I'm generally aligned with no with the with the direction that we want to go I mean we're not nobody's a hundred percent on everything right and but I don't find that I have I haven't found that the Party politics have interfered with where I where regionally or locally I think we need to we need to go

John French
0:19:49 (0:00:02)

follow up counselor stoner

Jenna Stoner
0:19:52 (0:00:30)

thank you through the chair thank you for being for the introduction on mlas and what they do I think it's really helpful always get to have a reminder you mentioned in your comments about having a meeting with VCH last week and that was one of the points that I wanted to ask you about if you had any insights on updates of timeline of that Master planning process as you said it's something that we've been anticipating for multiple years now and so wondering if you can speak any further to that

SPEAKER_04
0:20:22 (0:00:45)

foreign that there is to be a the reissuance of a of an agreement or a engaging a consultant to advance to begin to advance it I didn't get a very solid clear answer but they know we continue I continue to push I think as we all do I'm hopeful that we'll see some results by the Fall but I think we should all collectively continue to push that and try and get clearer answers

Jenna Stoner
0:21:08 (0:01:29)

yeah and it's great to know that you're pushing on that as well it's definitely a priority for this community as well as um at the Ceta Sky Regional Hospital District board it's something that we prioritized as well so um I think it's good to know that we're all pushing as hard as we can and hopefully VCH responds to that also appreciate your comments on Regional Transit I won't belabor that one but I think there's lots of work to do there the other one that I just wanted to highlight for you especially going into kind of budgeting time the BC Child Care New fund spaces we were successful in Squamish as well as Pemberton to receive some of that funding last year it took a little bit of advocating on our behalf to increase the amount the threshold that they were providing in dollar per spaces I think you were familiar with some of that advocacy work as you can imagine the rate of inflation and Rising construction costs have further exasperated exacerbated that work so I think we anticipate probably needing to do some more advocacy as the first round of our budget is coming in above what we had originally anticipated just on the risk of those costs escalations so that's another piece that we're really seeing we know that child care is such a significant issue in our community and more broadly through the corridor we were really hoping to get those spaces open and we still are this year but the rising cost of construction is really hampering that effort

SPEAKER_04
0:22:38 (0:00:51)

and just so going forward I'd be interested in who I can talk to so we can regularly sort of update that because my recollection we were under 48 000 of space or something like that which didn't work for any of the communities in the corridor then Whistler or sorry Squamish and Pemberton were successful in bumping it up to about 55 or something like that or is it closer to 60. 55 or so anyway those are numbers that I think I'd like to keep current on so that when we find out what at the end of the day does what it does come in at then we'll need to continue to bump that and say Here's a realistic we can't there's no spaces to convert it's all new builds and flood construction levels and all the other costs associated with developing here yeah

John French
0:23:29 (0:00:06)

Council anybody else we still have a few more minutes mayor Herbert

Armand Hurford
0:23:36 (0:01:57)

thank you the just to finish that point one step further is that the cost of delay you know we've worked for years to get to the point where we have some budget now and every delay just adds another layer and it's painful when we could have preempted this from the onset and recognizing the need for additional funds for areas that have hazards and the see the sky corridora probably the entirety of your of your of your area has hazards so I think it's an issue that has that knock-on effect across more broadly than just than just us but we're so close to one and it's been quite frustrating to see it just remain Out Of Reach um I was curious about the Highway 99 intersections sort of just broadly we we've saw what I'm still going to call as an attempt to address the issue at Cleveland 99 which when I mean following that project closely even before shovels were in the ground that oh it's gonna happen it's going to happen it's going to happen and now we're really still in the it's going to happen phase and it's been actually I think worse than better so far so I'm hoping that there's going to be a resolution there we won't that's maybe too granular for our discussion here today but in the broader sense around when that improvement's done we there is a long list of essentially every intersection needing a an improvement and how do you think it's best for us to advance those discussions with the with the province or impact that rather than waiting for ICBC data to rack up which does mean people at risk of our Public Safety

SPEAKER_04
0:25:33 (0:02:25)

yeah good question I think certainly prioritizing them and I understand you know the Cleveland 99 thing I was working with Patty on that so this is how slow things go sometimes unfortunately but momcom or the forest service road by the beside B there that's obviously a danger it's peace although is it the number one piece I would argue probably Alice lake is in my mind as someone who drives that all the time you just see what potential it has and I've been working with the moti for the last two years or so to come up with Alternatives I like the personally the um uh the protected left turn so you know we have a number of these on the seats got Porto would be one so you can turn into that flow of traffic without being in Conflict they have a problem with it on a four-way but I'm saying okay well let's go around to Depot Road then if you want it if you're getting it to turn left oh you're gonna have to go back down to Depot and turn left of the light anyway there's a variety of different solutions I'm not the traffic engineer but I'm continuing to push them and push them and push them to come up with a solution for that one um Dow it seems a harder one to manage in the long run another light there or something and how the community participates how the developers participate in that particular piece of obviously mamcom is a provincial responsibility as far as I can see and then the a double left out of again mom but by the by Highlands the mall I think would is a certainly we've seen that over the course of the last six or eight months right as work has taken place so that one is another a piece but to prioritize them work I think with a at a staff level with the moti staff that are like Michael Braun and those guys I think can help us get a sense of where they're seeing the priorities and then we got to step it up a little bit and push it to make sure that it gets it gets done sooner rather than later

Armand Hurford
0:27:58 (0:00:57)

yeah thank you we'll can we'll continue that work just hoping to shorten up those timelines from yeah even when the project gets kicked off that we're you know a year a year into a 100 meter project is yeah okay I know I might be exaggerating slightly but I don't think I started in 11 months 11 months the and just to further on that on that list I think is some sort of interaction with the with the lights in Britannia to help the backup Gap through our community on particularly on us evident on a Sunday on a Sunday afternoon trying to go trying to go south and just get from downtown to Valley Cliff when the cause of that congestion is I mean in the broader sense provincial tourism but the light at Britannia backing all the way all the way back up and sometimes all the way through the community the

SPEAKER_04
0:28:55 (0:01:06)

yeah that that's a that's a tough one there's been a they they've worked on signaling timing quite a bit um there's been some suggestions about roundabouts and that sort of thing which at the end of the day doesn't really isn't really going to change anything the biggest issue is I think there's 50 52 kilometers of essentially two lanes in each Direction narrowing down to one lane that that's the that's the source of the problem so we have a certain capacity that's limited by one lane in either direction and the issue for us is we're going to have to we have to maintain or manage that capacity as best we can and the lowest the low-hanging fruit is Regional Transit they that's the first because the chances of us double like four laning from essentially Porto to Horseshoe Bay there's another billion dollar project at current prices I would imagine and it's not going to happen anytime soon so I don't have an easy answer for that one

John French
0:30:02 (0:00:12)

did I see a hand over here okay yeah I saw you I'll come to you momentarily councilor Stone First Council green law

Lauren Greenlaw
0:30:15 (0:01:11)

thanks through the chair yeah I'd like to piggyback on that the I can't stress enough how important the regional transit is right and I've heard I mean I'm new at this obviously but I've heard that it's just been delayed for years already and reducing emissions is a global priority let alone a local one but in addition to that I would argue that our ocp is Reliant upon the regional transit and our parking Direction too is not complicit it does not allow for people to have commuter vehicles we really need a regional transit connector and I yeah anyway so I'd really like to emphasize that you push for that because it is incredibly important on a number of levels especially for the experience of people within Squamish who have difficulty accessing resources in Vancouver and to the north and I'd also like one other thing you know something that was brought to mind in the past couple weeks with the flooding that happened downtown is the second access to downtown which I also believe lies with the province um you know effectively but with global warming and sea level rise that is becoming an increasing risk having flooding downtown and we need to have ways of evacuating our people from downtown so thanks

John French
0:31:26 (0:00:06)

okay more of a statement than a question Council or MLA sturdy you want to follow up

SPEAKER_04
0:31:33 (0:01:36)

yes in terms of the regional transit know that um that I this has been something that I've been an advocate for ever since I was the mayor of Pemberton so we need a regional transit services no question about it I had the we were able to get BC transit to develop a 25-year Transit Futures plan and I think was published in 2017. yeah maybe it's 2016 and we um that really lays out what the future could look like for transit in the Sea to Sky and it stages it and it gives it some costing obviously out of date but it gives us a map forward and unfortunately since 2017 since that plan was developed and published and adopted by all of us including the Nations our Nate our part our first Nations Partners we haven't been able to advance it now then covid came into place I did have a question do you have a cop do we have the demand study results I asked my yeah I asked my staff to see if we can follow up with moti to see where that demand study is because that's a we're a year into it here we should have those results I'm a little skeptical as to the um the value of those results only because the whole thing was done during covid and it wasn't really I'm not sure that the numbers are valid but whatever I'd love to see what those results are so that's something I'll be following up on over the next course the next couple of weeks to see whether we can get that because the mot I did a demands another demand study to see whether we needed those dump that service still anyway sorry what was the other second

John French
0:33:09 (0:00:05)

entrance downtown

SPEAKER_04
0:33:15 (0:00:36)

I'm not sure I know that the province sees it as useful as a municipal access I'm not sure what commitment is there on behalf of the province to contribute to that solution so I'd be interested in talking to staff or whoever about where what where that discussion lies and how the muni sees it as a as a provincial priority or as a provincial and as a what provincial participation is expected that'll help me to advocate

John French
0:33:52 (0:00:26)

counselor Stoner a quick one from me before I come around to you for number two concise and quick MLA sturdy mayor Mark Sager in west Vancouver floated the idea during the fall election of extending the blue bus service to Squamish an idea worth pursuing or not what brief thoughts

SPEAKER_04
0:34:18 (0:00:39)

I would prefer to see a regional solution and I'm not I'm agnostic as to whether it be BC transit or an extension I'd be certainly willing to talk about an extension to translink's services but I and I can see that the value for the for the District of Squamish but as a MLA for West Vancouver City Sky I really want to see a connection for Mount Curry to come to their Hospital services in their and the retail services in Squamish and connection with the with Metro Vancouver so I want to see a regional solution

John French
0:34:58 (0:00:01)

counselor stoner

Jenna Stoner
0:35:00 (0:00:30)

thank you tied to this I'm just curious if you have any thoughts about updating a study on the highway capacity especially with growth south of Squamish so we just at the regional district approved third reading of Furry Creek Britannia Beach is that first reading that's thousands of new units I wonder if there's any benefit to pushing for the province to update the carrying capacity assessment of the highway to advance our shared perspective on Regional

SPEAKER_01
0:35:30 (0:00:04)

Transit

SPEAKER_04
0:35:34 (0:02:55)

go the wrong way yeah interesting yes I think the good data current data is valuable I think we can we have fairly good monitoring on the highway right now all of the infrastructure is in there to pretty much count traffic so we have good segment data it's a matter of just coming up with it and see what it looks like I re I believe as of last summer we were all not quite but almost at 2019 levels now when it comes to as you know as a representative councilor Stoner on the regional board you understand that Furry Creek was part of was incorporated into the highway capacity issues back in what in the early 90s I guess it was so and that was before the highway upgrade I do and I'm not dismissing the congestion issues that we face please don't get me wrong let's remember though that when we put it into the larger context understand that we have issues on Friday nights in certain places on Sunday afternoons in certain places and then let's recognize the issues on the second arrows that happen two times a day every day south of the Fraser some of the issues there so and then what are we trying you know understanding the data I think where the best argument is that we saw 22 growth in this community and in the last census 18 I believe in Whistler and 34 in Pemberton so the fact that this Corridor is an attractive place and growing there's no dispute there so there's two issues as I see it one being that we need to maintain as best we can the capacity that we have and as you know we keep reiterating Regional transits to low hanging fruit there but the other pieces of piece that I see the district continues to support and emphasize and I have always felt the same way that if we as Community leaders don't focus on making sure that we have well-paying jobs in this community and simply see growth that forces people to commute to another Community to work then we will have failed and which is why places like the north yards the any other potential the commercial job employment lands that we spend as much time focusing on how to how to encourage good jobs as we do on affordable housing I think they go they go hand in hand

John French
0:38:30 (0:00:09)

MLA sturdy we've gone a little over the time that but I think it was well worth it um thank you very much for joining us and do you have some closing thoughts

SPEAKER_04
0:38:40 (0:08:54)

for us it's just a couple of pieces that I wanted to they also remain some of the priority work that I'll be seeing in the spring one of them is house on secondary and the Middle School the seismic upgrade in the Middle School piece I think you know that to serve this community over the we got these are five-year projects so we need to start this project as soon as possible in order to really because it's going to be five years before we really see any impact so we're given and there's no reason to think that we're not going to continue to see growth in this community and the demographic is such that those kids are going to be in Middle School by the time it's built so we that that's one of my priorities with then with the education side and then just oh the other one that I think is a critical infrastructure piece that seems to have fallen off the table a little bit is as we know the hydro sub substation is right over here and it is in on land that is questionable if we have a seismic event we could certainly see some significant issues we could have an inundation event there is a I think there was it was a priority of hydro in the past to look at relocating that substation to a better place to a place that had better ground quality that was perhaps potential to growth there's a number of areas that were identified and that's something that I think we need to collectively continue to push that seems to have fallen off the table a little bit they're going to make one of their I think there's some of those Transformers need to be replaced there could be some significant work that takes place there which may or may not be necessary in the short term but at the end of the day we could spend a lot of money upgrading something that's not in the right place anyway and I think that there's a there's a conversation that needs to happen there and we can need to continue to push it just for this because if we have that thing go down and we have the community out of power that that's a that's one of those public safety issues that needs to be managed the visitor capacity here I thought that there was some really interesting data there that I can't remember what the number was now it was how many visits five four hundred fifty thousand camping visits to this to Squamish on how many sites a couple hundred sites you know we need some action there we had a long-term plan probably five six seven years ago now to develop another couple of hundred three four five hundred even Rec sites in the in the valley and I think it's important and that we manage the demand is here the demand is going to continue to grow and we can either have people camping all over the place or we can concentrate impacts and I I'm a big fan of concentrating those impacts and so it's important that we get additional we get action on from Wreck sites and trails on putting more campsites in place and then just as a general comment we see right now there's a five billion dollar Surplus in annual Surplus and as a result of a variety of things additional money coming from the feds some big contingencies were already built into the budget that weren't spent it gives the government a another the people say oh they got to spend it they got to spend or they got to pay down debt like that's a bad thing I which I don't entirely understand yes it's so there is a year-end money piece and that money would have to be spent before the end of this fiscal which is March 31st so I think over the course of the next couple months we're going to see a large yes from the government just spending money all over the place well I mean people the media is saying gotta spend that five billion dollars now I'd also argue to remember that when this government took office the provincial budget the provincial debt I'm sorry was about 65 billion dollars by the end of this fiscal plan the provincial debt will be 128 billion dollars so we've doubled the provincial debt over the course of the last five or six years to say that we shouldn't do we should spend 5 billion rather than pay down debt I'm not entirely convinced that we shouldn't pay down some of that debt that said you can see the political desire to spend money you know I got all this money it's burning a hole in my wallet I got to spend it so if they're going to spend it anyway let's advocate what do we you know what can we spend money on that will benefit the community that that'll benefit the region and will that will provide services to people but it also has to be quick so if you have any ideas about yeah and government can't go spend it all in government writings they have to spend it everywhere so let's if you have any ideas on quick spends quick wins to use that unfortunate term you know let's think about that and government there's gonna be we'll see what legislation I'll talk to you about I'd like to come back and talk to maybe in April about what the budget looked like what the budget priorities are and the and budget estimates as well also one other piece and sorry Council French as you know you the spec tax is coming to Squamish remember that the legislation is that the money collected in the spec tax is to be spent on affordable housing and spent on affordable housing in the regional district in which it's collected which is certainly an irritant to certain communities like in west Vancouver they generated about 40 percent of the spectacs collected in Metro and has that money been spent back in west Vancouver no it's been spent in other places but we need to pay attention to that calculation and if the if only the District of Squamish is subject to the spec tax then it strikes me that the District of Squamish is where the money should be spent so that's follow that and make sure that we have accountability on it oh sorry too much you're killing me fuel pricing fuel pricing I think we all know that that's an issue that's an irritant I have been I've had lots of correspondence with Minister Ralston in the past who was the minister I have I have provided him with data they we were successful in getting Squamish as one of the exam one of the communities that was studied by the BCU Utilities Commission under the field price transparency act so they have good data on Squamish I've continued to provide the minister with data just the other day that you know we were talking about we were at a dollar seventy seven or a dollar or whatever it was and met in west Vancouver North Vancouver's 15 cents less and they don't they're not sub we're not subject to the TransLink Levy so we we're pretty my calculation is we're extract acting about 14 million dollars a year out of the region in excess fuel prices and so now we have a new minister so that's Josie Osborne and I will be working I'll be working to convince her to provide a submission to the competition Bureau in Ottawa that we are being unfairly treated here and I know that there's been some constituents here in the region specifically got a Squamish one guy who actually did provide a I did make a submission to the competition Bureau and they said well it's all about competition and you don't have enough competition essentially but I don't I don't I don't and that I don't accept that and um I believe that the province through bcuc has more than enough the information and data and access to Nevada and capacity to make a provincial submission to the competition Bureau which is going to go farther I believe than if I make the submission or if a private citizen makes a submission I'd like to the weight of the province behind it so that'll be another one of the things I'd hope to accomplish this year

John French
0:47:35 (0:00:09)

fabulous that was all valuable thank you very much and we look forward to seeing you again in April hopefully coordinate we can that and make it happen

SPEAKER_04
0:47:44 (0:00:03)

excellent thank you thank you for your time appreciate it

Garibaldi Neighbourhood Plan
0:48:02 (0:45:15)

At the Council meeting, Matt Gunn presented an update on the Garibaldi States neighborhood plan, which included an engagement process with 600 survey respondents, 277 mapping items, 100 questions asked in a question and answer forum, and 20 small group conversations with 160 attendees. Key themes included housing affordability and limited housing supply, negative perceptions of infill and development, room for improvement in infrastructure, and limited support for specific missing middle housing forms. The update also included a transportation study, a Food Policy Council report, and six sub-areas proposed with three feature scenarios for each. Council will decide on scenarios after the narrative is presented to the community, and density targets are not being pursued for this project. There will be small format meetings for feedback, and Ian Pickets will present an update on the Community Climate Action Plan Implementation Activity.

John French
0:47:48 (0:00:51)

and with that I will recess us for to five counselor stoner to five minutes to 11 so that our staff has a bit of time to prepare the next presentation thank you and I welcome everybody back to our committee of the whole meeting for this morning for those maybe that are just joining us online or here in the gallery my name is counselor John French and I am the acting mayor for the month of January so in that capacity I'm chairing today's Committee of the whole meeting and we are now on to Community planning and sustainability issues and our next topic is the Garibaldi Estates neighborhood plan and at this point I will be turning it over to Mr Gunn I believe to take it from

SPEAKER_06
0:48:39 (0:13:06)

here thank you very much good morning my name is Matt Gunn I'm a community planner with the District of Squamish with me are Jonas valenishkish the director of the department and Gary Buxton the GM of the division the GM of the division okay so I'm here today presenting the Garibaldi States neighborhood plan stage 3 update rather than seeking direction from Council on this planning process the primary intent today is to update you on the background details in particular for new members of council and to provide an overview of the next step in advance of stage three engagement activities which are coming up I have a is this yeah there we go I'd like to begin with a quick review of where we are on the planning process stage one was a project initiation phase which began in mid-2021 and included Council endorsement of Engagement plan in June of that year stage two focused on engaging with the public to understand the neighborhood and Community context stage three which we're now in is a stage in which future neighborhood scenarios are created and presented to community for consideration in stage four a preferred neighborhood plan will be developed for consideration by the community and Council and in stage five the finalized preferred plan will be presented to council for adoption as a bylaw I now like to review some of the results from previous engagement activities that have led to this point as noted stage two was the start of public engagement for the planning process given the covet context we utilized our new online platform let's talk Squamish as the primary hub for engagement activities there was significant uptake on the platform we had over 600 respondents do a survey on housing we had a mapping activity where 277 items were contributed there was a heavily used question and answer Forum with just over a hundred questions or just under 100 questions there was a vision and ideas activity with 60 comments in addition we held an input we held in-person open houses with 131 attendees and a virtual open house with 68 attendees staff also participated in a food policy Workshop which was organized by Squamish climate Action Network several key themes were identified in stage two of the planning process which were included in an engagement summary presented to council these key themes included the following the Garibaldi Estates neighborhood is a great place to live the Garibaldi States neighborhood planning process upset many neighborhood residents many neighborhood residents have negative perceptions of infill and development and want their neighborhood to be left as it currently is there's room for improvement in infrastructure and in particular Transportation infrastructure in the neighborhood many key values need to be considered in developing a neighborhood plan and there is room there is some limited support for specific missing middle housing forms within the neighborhood at the conclusion of stage two the engagement plan was modified to include a series of small group conversations at the at the outset of stage three the intention of these conversations was to provide residents who were frustrated about the stage 2 engagement process a chance to talk directly with staff and Council that was something that we hadn't provided and came up as a negative and something that was desired and the other intention was to ensure that a diverse range of Scottish residents and stakeholders were represented in the planning process and those voices were heard staff developed a discussion guide and background information for these conversations and conversations and reached out to a range of stakeholders which included residents representatives of critical Services housing Advocates and non-market housing tenants businesses seniors and Youth these efforts resulted in a total of 20 small group conversations with 160 attendees and at these meetings staff facilitated conversations and recorded themes which were then presented back to attendees for review themes and discussion records from these meetings were included in the stage 3 small group conversations engagement summary an important consideration here is to note that the findings from the small group conversations in stage three were not quantitative nor were they assumed to be statistically representative of the community as noted the intention was to ensure that we had a range of perspectives from residents and stakeholders represented in the planning process the following are some of the key themes from these discussions housing affordability and limited housing Supply and Squamish is causing significant challenges for businesses and critical services to attract and retain employees finding opportunities for additional non-market housing opportunities in the community was highlighted as important by Advocates and tenants some Community residents including Youth and seniors have concerns regarding the impact growth and infill will have on the character of their neighborhood some Community residents Express strong opposition to infill large Apartments law consolidation and parking reductions and do not feel infill would support affordability some Community residents Express support for more diverse and affordable housing Supply and the opportunities that it could accompany expanded housing options and finally Youth and seniors highlighted the importance of Transit another step that was completed in the first part of stage three was a Garibaldi Estates Transportation study the study considers potential future traffic volumes in the Estates the scenario that was used is based on both significant infill and Greenfield development of future lands such as Quest Thunderbird and land outside the growth management boundary the scenario was assumed to overestimate future growth in the area essentially the worst case scenario if there was lots of development what would the impact be on the transportation Network the analysis determined impacts on the local Road Network and Highway 99 intersection from this growth the analysis indicated that some failing turning movements would occur after 3 500 new residential units across the entire Northeast quadrant of Squamish however the study also proposed improvements to address these challenges and estimated the costs for those improvements with the improvements identified traffic that would be generate generated in the proposed scenario can be effectively managed the study and potential upgrades have been discussed with moti and moti recognized these improvements as potential options to address the challenges should they arrive but also noted that other upgrades to intersections could provide alternative Solutions in stage 3 staff also received a report from the Squamish food policy council with recommendations for the Garibaldi Estates to support the Local Food Network these included the following designated an area in the east of the neighborhood to support a mix of both housing and agricultural uses within half the within the half acre VOA Parcels encouraging land sharing opportunities where landowners collaborate with Growers to bring unused yard spacing to food production along mam clam Road used the existing District land for a public quarter with active transportation and Community Gardens within the Western area adjacent to the established commercial area look for opportunities to establish additional walkable commercial area with a regional farmhood Regional firm Hub commissary kitchen and Market these examples all focus on land use policies but other elements in their report focused on establishing a funding mechanism and infrastructure considerations um following the small group conversations and the engagement report that was presented to council staff began working on future land use scenarios for this the neighborhood has been divided into six sub-areas the six sub areas which are generally shown in this image will present will be presented with defined boundaries in the upcoming engagement activities for each of these sub areas three feature scenarios have been developed these scenarios present options for how the Garibaldi States could evolve in coming years the scenarios outline specific permitted land uses and housing forms Heights and densities for each of the areas the proposed land uses that are included were informed by the input received through the planning process different future scenarios can be chosen for each of the six sub-areas which allows participants to provide feedback specific for each of the sub areas in total there'd be a combination of 18 different scenarios that could be contemplated which is something we heard during the planning process that residents wanted a range of options not just three options and so by having these different mix and match essentially options people have opportunity to look at different scenarios in advance of the upcoming engagement activities I'd like to give Council a limited preview of the details regarding the scenarios that will be presented the intention of this preliminary information is to highlight that the scenarios offer a range of housing forms Heights and densities early in the project some of the residents and participants expressed concern that the process had a predetermined outcome such as dense apartments across the neighborhood this is not the case for many subarian neighborhoods proposed height increases are limited in scope in the staff report I've included some basic details about the three scenarios which are titled A B and C in scenario a across the entire neighborhood permitted Heights would remain the same as currently permitted a number of additional land uses are permitted such as more diverse housing options in residential areas but the size of the structures would be no taller nor have a larger floor area ratio than currently permitted one point of clarification is that for several properties in the Estates existing buildings are not built to the maximum permitted Heights so therefore in scenario a some buildings could be built taller than currently exist but they would meet the existing zoning height restrictions in scenario b a one-story height increase is proposed for half of the sub areas and a two-story increases proposed in one sub-area in scenario C four separators are proposed for one additional Building Story one separate year is proposed for a two-story increase and one sub area is proposed for a three to four story increase scenarios will be presented to the community for consideration and feedback first through let's talk Squamish and staff is going to provide counsel with details approximately one week in advance before the release to the public so that council members are informed and prepared for any questions they may receive from the public when they are released online don't want you guys caught off guard or having to do a crazy search through the scenarios when they're released to Aid the community in understanding proposed land use changes a visual model has been created to represent building Heights and massing in relation to existing building forms this aligns with Direction received from Council following presentation of the small group conversations though now I do need to clarify that the level of detail that you're going to see in the visualizations is much less than you would typically see an artistic rendering that you get for one development project from a developer who's hired you know special team to develop those this is not the level of detail we're going for but it will provide an opportunity to see how building forms will relate to neighborhood properties or neighboring properties these images are from the visualization model that's been developed this we started out by creating a model of what's currently in place so these are all the existing built forms that you'll see across the neighborhood and it gives you an example of the type and level of detail it's essentially to give you a sense of how the buildings are going to relate to each other in terms of forming massing so that will come and so there'll be visualizations for all scenarios or all sub scenario areas at all three levels so it's been quite a bit of work to create these but I think it'll help the community understand what type of the scale we're talking about with buildings that are proposed in addition to the three land use scenarios for each of the six sub areas the next stage of public engagement will include consideration of proposed policy options on a range of neighborhood planning topics under the theme of emerging ideas participants will have the opportunity to provide feedback on early policy concepts related to the following topic topics accessory commercial units co-housing commercial food hubs or a commercial food Hub man Community Gardens mid-bot connections tree retention Parks Transportation Network Child Care unemployment space the next step of stage 3 engagement will begin with an online launch through let's talk Squamish in the first half of February information presented will include the land use scenarios and emerging ideas in the second of half of February staff will promote and launch a series of small format meetings registers will launch oh sorry register participants will pre-register for these in-person meetings which will be similar in size and nature to the small group conversations that were used earlier in stage three at these meetings residents will have the opportunity to meet directly with staff learn more about the scenario's ideas ask questions and provide feedback a survey will be available through let's talk Squamish and at the meetings and the survey and feedback from the meetings will be compiled and presented to council as an engagement summary results from ch3 will inform the development of a preferred neighborhood scenario development plan in stage four the staff recommendation is that Council received the Garibaldi States neighborhood Plan update report for information yeah and that is the conclusion of my presentation

John French
1:01:46 (0:00:29)

excellent thank you Mr Gunn and just before we get into questions I want to reiterate that this is simply a staff update and much more meat will come onto these bones in the next couple of weeks as we get further information so just keep that in mind with your questions this morning please Council and counselor Stoner followed by mayor Herbert

Jenna Stoner
1:02:15 (0:00:47)

thank you thank you for the update and just a checkpoint on where we're at with this project exciting to see the development of the scenarios and appreciate all the work that's probably gone into developing the visualizations I am curious you mentioned that it'll be part of the emerging ideas and policy priorities the employment space and the commercial dwelling accessory commercial units I'm just wondering if we've Incorporated that at all in terms of the scenario planning so we talk about height and different land uses is all the height considered to be residential height or is some of it potentially commercial height

SPEAKER_06
1:03:03 (0:01:19)

thanks for the question so the scenarios that are presented in the visuals and the information related to those visuals the six different sub arrays and the three different scenarios for each of those sub areas those are independent of some of the policy ideas but there's crossover the because the um emerging ideas are somewhat add-ons which we may or may not decide to accept the permutations could get really complicated if we start trying to incorporate those so things like the accessory commercial space um would be an addition to what's going to be presented in the visuals but the I can say that in employment space aside from accessory commercial uses wait what did I call Accessory commercial units aside from those the commercial space is limited in an area where it's going to be proposed within the neighborhood and those areas are represented in the visualization so we have quite a bit of employment space that would be contemplated in some of the scenarios they're directly represented in those sub areas in the visualizations but add-ons like the accessory commercial units are not represented because it is could come or could go regardless of what scenarios are supported

John French
1:04:22 (0:00:07)

next I have Council or mayor Herford and I'll follow with counselor Anderson

Armand Hurford
1:04:30 (0:00:18)

thank you am I correct to state that the currently the neighborhood isn't sort of hitting the maximums of the allowable um density and that's already allowed is that that's correct yeah it's

SPEAKER_06
1:04:48 (0:00:25)

property by property but for sure they're there are areas where buildings are not built to the height or density that are permitted on those properties older buildings on some larger properties and then certainly many of many of the Residential Properties do not come close to the density that currently could be built if someone were to come and say hey I'm buying this property I want to rebuild a larger home those could be much larger than are currently in place

Armand Hurford
1:05:14 (0:00:46)

okay so just to I'm just I'm trying to and maybe I'm reading I'm I'm going I'm going too far I just want to un understand the so in some of our areas where it's zoned for use but that isn't that hasn't occurred yet and then we're doing this planning process in where we're going to have a visualization of what a future state would be but the future state is it going to be represented as everyone going to the maximum that's allowable which in my experience sort of across the whole Community isn't what the end result is I don't know what it is if it's 80 of that or if it's 50 of that or just how have you addressed this General concept as you've been developing it and is that something that you're that's sort of been on your radar yeah

SPEAKER_06
1:06:00 (0:02:08)

yeah okay yeah so the you know the visualization tool that when you get into site like specific site planning for a property there becomes a level of consideration and detail for the different factors that we just can't delve into at this level it really is a broad swath approach to try and represent and so we have there's two parts to your question one you know that not every property will redevelop over time we have lots of things you know there are there are uses that are permitted across large areas that aren't utilized even though they might have you know provide more glowing units or whatnot so we've tried to assume that there's some proportion of development will occur over time and then on properties they're actually within our zones even right now there are a range of fars or floor area ratios that are permitted depending on different permutations of whether you have a you know a low carbon or you have a secondary Suite or Adu so there's a number they're just this gets super complicated as you try and figure out what to represent and so we've tried to take um a representation that's most of the far that could be permitted on most of the properties and represented for most of the scenarios at like 50 transition which may occur over a decade or two to new property to new land users um you know I think it because there are so many permutations and how this will all turn out we'll be able to we'll explain what we've done in the scenarios and we'll be available to answer questions in any of the meetings or the online events if people have specific questions but we've tried to take a best guess at what we think it might turn out with knowing that it's impossible to nail it it's in the future and it's hard to say how things will turn out but we've taken a guess at to represent you know a fairly large build out of what could happen does that answer your question

Armand Hurford
1:08:09 (0:00:44)

it I it's we're going down that path and I think that's good for now I was curious around the you know if the representations are going to represent 100 build out of the new of the new policy and what the existing policy we don't see 100 build out so then that could be more jarring I'm just concerned understanding that nuance and if perhaps the Baseline should be a representation of what 100 build out of current policy looks like to better represent the difference or just or maybe there's another way to address it I hope you see the concept that I'm sort of wrestling with and maybe it'll become clear when we see those and I'm sorry if I'm getting the cart before the horse

SPEAKER_06
1:08:53 (0:00:53)

here no actually sorry that is it I have a better wake that I should have used to respond to this initially in the scenario way for all of the sub areas the scenario a is does not propose increase in height or density for the sub areas and so the massing that's represented in the scenario a across should reflect close again there's all these different variables that come into it but it's roughly a representation of um what could be built under existing zoning regulations so that may be targets maybe that was a better way to answer that but I do want to say we haven't applied 100 in all areas we've because that's not a realistic scenario there are a couple areas where because of the nature of the land uses that are proposed we have applied 100 so that people can see what would be what would occur over time but in general we haven't applied 100 across

John French
1:09:47 (0:00:05)

councilman Anderson followed by counselor pettingell

Eric Andersen
1:09:52 (0:01:18)

thank you Mr Gunn in your introduction you have described the six sub-areas or rather the as being and quote generally shown in the chart in your report the figure one neighborhood subarius for scenarios it appears to me that the six subares as we have them delineated here and as your prayer remark generally shown but they're drawn without consideration of and I'm going to call it sub-neighborhood lot and building or development history typologies or land use as per our ocp and Zoning for example we have two clear typologies here in the vla and in the original Pat good what you've got Estates North Garibaldi Estates subdivisions these are clear typologies of a uniform type and then we have some other things that we could do that so my question is and since after all as you've also highlighted our sub neighborhood values have been clearly emphasized by the existing residents so could you comment on the chart we have before us and the rationale or status of the delineation of the six sub-areas yeah

SPEAKER_06
1:11:11 (0:02:47)

for sure and I think the thing I want to say first about this question coming in is that you know this is at this stage we've heard a bunch of input we've tried to put together some ideas to talk about but you know the six areas that are in this if in the discussion with the residents they say holy crow this is a crazy this boundary was in the wrong place and this should be in that like we're not bound to anything at this point there's lots of opportunity to hear what people say if people say that street you totally should put that over there and the land uses that are over here we can do this with and that there's we're not we're not on a fixed path we can we can course correct and if that comes up I'm more than happy to do that easily it could occur it was the intent here was more to one of the things I heard a lot of is people felt that there were differences across the neighborhood and I didn't want to be bound here to what might happen over there I wanted to give the opportunity for people to look at their closer to home areas and there were also responses from people that said hey you know I support something like this in this area but I sure don't support it in this area and so in the conversation as we go forward we want to enable that if we just had one scenario three different scenarios that were across the whole area there'd be no opportunity to talk about people's individual areas and their feelings that might be different across the neighborhood so I tried to respond to that the in terms of how the neighborhoods were split up there I think there were probably two primary functions one was the type of land and the characteristics of the land in place right now the lots and the uses that existed and then two what I had heard from people in the process where I'd heard like hey you know I could see this happening over here generally but I wouldn't support it over here so I wanted to create boundaries that I felt could both reflect how the land is different across the neighborhood now and what I had heard and there was a bit of a balancing act between those two elements and I will say that in some of the sub areas the 78 does not need to be treated uniformly there is a sub array where hey if properties are above this um you know size it could be treated in this way and below this size it could be treated in another way so there are even some nuances within the um sub areas in the scenarios but as I said you know this is a starting point for a conversation it was the first time we're going to be looking at like hey here's some land uses that might be supported in this area over time totally open to the feedback that may come and if the some of the feedback is that these boundaries are unreasonable or don't work we can change them for our preferred neighborhood plan it's just a format for discussion

Eric Andersen
1:13:58 (0:01:37)

thank you Mr Gunn I had a follow-up question regarding the policy considerations section of your report to council you outline and a number of 10 bullet points here proposed policy options on a range of neighborhood planning topics and there's about 10 topics listed there's a couple that occurred to me that I didn't see highlighted here and I'll start with something that will relates to a report we may have discussed later on today and that is an embodied carbon guide that our staff have been working on with Whistler and this has a number of recommendations for neighborhood planning Community planning generally in this neighborhood as it might evolve the outcome of this plan we're going to see as already proposed height increases replacement of buildings retrofits Renovations and new build and all of these relate to the potential policy area of how we want to encourage embodied carbon considerations and other kinds of design considerations I'll just leave off with here with a reference to the loggers Lane East neighborhood plan where we set a precedent we have an item here we propose to maximize wood-based building materials or other carbon storing materials I don't see this topic in your list of the 10 policy planning topics might this be considered interpreting or implementing some of the recommendations coming forward on embodied carbon and our building stock

SPEAKER_06
1:15:35 (0:00:59)

um so the policies that are for consideration in this stage have been selected based on what has been heard through the planning process to date that kind of some of the themes that have come up as um as concerns that have questions I'd like to get answered now to help develop the preferred neighborhood plan embodied carbon didn't raise in that a collection of ideas doesn't mean it's not something we can consider as I said we've you know we're still in the in a stage where looking at scenarios we're not developing the