Special Business Meeting - 18 Apr 2023


1: Welcome to the Squamish Nation Traditional Territory
2: ADOPTION OF AGENDA
3: MOTION TO CLOSE
4: BYLAWS
4.A: FIRST THREE READINGS
4.A.i: District of Squamish 2023-2027 Five Year Financial Plan Bylaw No. 2941, 2022 Amendment (Spring) Bylaw No. 2962, 2023
5: STAFF REPORTS
5.i: 2023 Tax Rate Workshop Presentation
6: TERMINATION
Bylaws: First Three Readings - District of Squamish 2023-2027 Five Year Financial Plan Bylaw Amendments
0:00:00 (1:43:28)

During the district of Squamish's special business meeting on April 18th, the council discussed the financial plan amendment, which had been presented by Heather Boxer, General Manager of Financial Services [6120][6121][6158]. The amendment was recommended to address the impact caused by cost escalations, project scope changes, changes in supplier availability, and emergency expenditure requirements that occurred in the first quarter of 2023 [6121]. The flood protection plan will be replaced over the next two years using allocated grant funding [6126]. The cost of existing projects at the recreation center and elsewhere are fully funded by existing values and CACs, and they plan to use CACs to continue paying for future projects [6130]. There is an increase in cost for building the pickleball courts due to additional expenses for environmental review, tree clearing, ground improvements, and the construction of a higher fence with sound attenuation matting [6133]. The council raised concerns on decisions made around the Civic block on other facilities like Brenham park or rec facilities affecting other facilities [6180][6184]. They noted that the city doesn't currently have the financial capacity to move forward with multiple facility projects, but will need significant external funding through sponsorships, grants, partnerships, and private operators [6191]. There were also discussions on the long-term financial model being updated with the help of a consultant, which will address concerns about how to pay for projects [6195].

Armand Hurford
0:00:00 (0:00:39)

thank you and welcome back to the special business meeting for district Squamish today is Tuesday April 18th and please be advised that this council meeting is being live streamed recorded and will be available to the public to view on the district Squamish website following the meeting if you have any concerns please notify the corporate officer present at the meeting we are now on to item four a which is first three readings and we have a financial plan amendment that will be introduced by our financing team so I will pass over to you to introduce yourself and the topic

SPEAKER_00
0:00:39 (0:02:27)

hey thank you good afternoon Miss mayor Hereford council members of the community who have joined us today my name is Heather boxer general manager of financial services and my pronouns are she her so I can be dressed accordingly I'm joined today by Roland Russell our senior financial analyst who will be walking us through the 2023 to 2027 financial plan spring Amendment as well we have several of our budget managers online or here in council chambers to answer any Project Specific questions you may have so the Community Charter provides municipalities the ability to amend their financial plan by law at any time to allow municipalities to react and to adapt to changing circumstances within the municipalities fiscal year a financial plan amendments or sorry a financial plan bylaw amendment is common practice although best practice is to reserve this option for instances when the financial plan is substantially impacted and critical projects are incapable of progressing with an amendment without an amendment to the financial plan two important impacts of amending a financial plan should be noted so amending the financial plan takes significant resources to complete and public sector Accounting Standards omits the amended budget from being incorporated into the budget column of the statement of operations on the external financial statements it's important to note that the that the scheduled carry forward financial plan Amendment adopted earlier this year is separate and distinct from this amendment and the carry forward is incorporated into the external financial statements as a regular part of the financial planning process so a few key points to highlight is that this amendment is being recommended so that the district can adapt to impact as a result of cost escalations project scope Changers changes supplier availability emergency expenditure requirements that occurred in the first quarter of 2023 the amendment counts for changes to projects in Flight in 2023 only further project changes to Future year projects will be incorporated into the 2024-2028 financial planning cycle it's also important to note that the recommended budget amendment does not impact the 2023 Revenue require tax revenue requirement and so with that I'll hand it over to Mr Russell to take you through the presentation thank you

SPEAKER_15
0:03:07 (0:10:27)

good afternoon mayor members council members of the public my name is Roland Russell and I will be walking you through a presentation this afternoon on our spring Amendment so first off this more or less summarizes what Ms Boxford had just spoken about here's the highlights of the amendment process Council must authorize the financial plan then for us to spend money should be in the plan here's a number of reasons why the plan could be changed and we will step through a number of those and highlight some of the major projects that come into play with respect to those these various items so with no further Ado let's go right to the top projects with cost escalation while the pro the largest cost escalation we've experienced so far in our financial plan is for the new Public Works facility and that is cost escalation from a Class C estimate to a class B estimate the difference is 10.6 million dollars so that's from 26.4 million to 37 million okay projects with funding changes probably the largest project that we're experiencing here with funding change is twofold wastewater treatment plant upsides for growth this project is a DCC funder project but what we are requesting and what we're proposing is that the funding we moved from DCC so developer cost charges to debt supported by developer cost charges we'll explain the rationale for that shortly this is the other project with a significant cost escalation the overall cost escalation on this project from the 2022 financial plan so I.E what we thought was going to be the price the price of this project when we started our 2023 budget deliberations last June was 13.2 million dollars this project is now costing 20.2 million dollars so again a very significant cost escalation associated with this project the other project that we would like to highlight or one other project that we would like to highlight here is budget approvals which require sorry approvals of budgets for items which are externally funded so upper Jud slew dike racing and I use this term to Lop off about seven other words that are associated with this dike raising but it's upper Jimmy Slough and what has occurred here is we have a placeholder that we put into our financial plan every year for four million dollars for annual flood protection and that allows us to go forward and apply for Grants and design projects you know in to meet the varying needs that we have throughout the community and so when we put in an application for a grant application and it is being received favorably so we're getting an indication that this has some promise we can move forward with the design aspects of that of that project and this is one of the projects so what we've done is we've taken out the 24 and 25 annual flood protection funding for eight million dollars and we've replaced it with a grant funded project so based on a grant that we've applied for this grant has not been made official for this project four million dollars and then we will put up the other 1.5 million dollars ourselves to put together a total project of 5.4 5.5 million dollars continuing on with this other significant projects that we've seen were projects with scope changes and in this instance we applied for a grant for to extend the upgrade program that is currently underway at the Adventure Center and to allow us to do more work both intern and the interior and exterior of that building in keeping with the work that we've are currently doing so those are the major changes from Capital program we wanted to highlight some of the major expenditures for an emergency standpoint probably the biggest one being Queensway lift station replacement so what occurred here is the list station failed in January we had a project in our plan called lift station re sorry lift station Rehabilitation for 1.4 million dollars we've converted that project to a new project designated as the Queensway lift station replacement taking that 1.4 million dollars taking six hundred thousand dollars in funding that would have otherwise been spent on Wastewater main rentals and created a two million dollar project not two million dollar project reflects the cost of replacing the Queensway lift station on the basis of its failure earlier this year so that's a fairly significant project it was one that we were planning on doing we were actually going to do the work on Queensway this year it just stopped working before we actually got a chance to repair it and as a result of that it's more expensive than it would have been had we been able to get in there a little sooner unfortunate but stuff happens also a case where we incurred Emergency Operating expenditures around 250 000 that's with the failure of this of the station of the list station we needed to ensure that we weren't backing switch up into the system and into people's basements so we needed to bring in fact trucks Etc and basically loop around the lift station so that we could continue the sanitary system to continue to work and it based on its design so obviously that's not something that's in your day-to-day plans and you hope you never have to do that but sometimes things break so those are additional emergency expenditures associated with that the additional operating expenses those will be funded from draws against the Wastewater Reserve basically at the end of the day they'll they will have a smaller Surplus than they would have otherwise and so they will be putting less money into the reserve than they would have anticipated based on these additional expenses and the last item is the at the Aquatic Center the pull pack air exchanger failed and that was replaced should be noted that there are two units one unit has been replaced as an emergency and that was done late February March I believe and the second unit will be replaced as part of the normal during the pull the normal pull shutdown which occurs in August September of the year it should also be noted which I probably has been brought to council's attention that although there's a bit of a chloriney smell in the pool for a while there it was not hazardous to staff or otherwise and met all air quality requirements so I'm going to jump forward to the next slide which lists summarizes a batch of the other adjustments that we've made so in addition to those larger projects there's also a number of smaller projects where the amounts and the changes which are all listed within your within your RTC within your report have taken place these are items where we've changed financing well we might have had small scale price escalations such as at Brenham Park arena where we're going to do some work on the on the ice plant and you know the results of our RFP came in higher than our budget so we needed to hold that until we got the budget amendment through and requested additional funding so those types of things which occur and they have been included here and at this point I will pause for a moment and I will ask Council for their direction we could pause here and ask questions related to the capital component or we could I could continue through with the special operating cost components of the spring Amendment what will be your preference

Armand Hurford
0:13:34 (0:00:14)

let's pause for questions here just so we can try to compartmentalize the questions if we can Council questions on anything that we've heard so far in the presentation stoner

Jenna Stoner
0:13:48 (0:00:36)

thank you through the chair a few questions wondering if staff can speak to the annual flood protection upgrades and appreciate that we've identified a project that is Grant eligible but I do have concerns about reduction of scope and was my understanding from the but Hazard mitigation that we're meant to be investing about four million dollars a year and it feels like we're reducing that quite substantially at this point can just staff speak to that in the potential risks that opens us up to

SPEAKER_04
0:14:24 (0:00:25)

the marriage that may actually be a question for Mr Russell aware that we are looking into this project but I haven't been aware that we would be cutting funding in a future year so I think it makes good sense to continue on with roughly a four million dollar expenditure per year

SPEAKER_15
0:14:49 (0:01:30)

so what I what I would add to that is in the in the next two years 24 and 25 we've replaced the flood protection the current flood protection plan with this project as this project will take two years to complete that's my understanding based on the information provided by our Engineering Group that knowledge and also the fact that we will have the ability to continue to work on design Etc we think is appropriate really what it comes down to is we've used up the grant funding that we've allocated to those two years because we have four million dollars a year four million dollars of grant funding allocated to the over those two years so effectively we've used up our grant funding allocation and we put this project in as a placeholder on a matching basis so we're attempting to match whatever grant funding we're able to get so it doesn't prevent us from going out and looking for more grants and if we were to get more grants we could accelerate the projects from future years and bring them in but at this stage we've used up the grant funding that we have allocated so we've taken those two years worth of projects out and offset them with this one instead

Jenna Stoner
0:16:20 (0:00:22)

but if another Grant did come up we aren't reducing the amount that we have in our budget to match any potential future grants the intention has always been where my understanding was that the 4 million was kind of broken up 2 million taxation 2 million grants and that was kind of just like the Baseline that we'd provide as I see it here we're reducing that from 8 million to 5.4

SPEAKER_15
0:16:43 (0:00:37)

yes because at this point we don't have another Grant identified if we were to identify another Grant we would apply for that Grant and if obviously needless to say if we were successful we would adjust our financing accordingly and that would occur within the next financial plan cycle for 2024. these this project specifically is designed to replace the flood protection work that we were planning in 2024 it is you know there's a small portion in 2023 but that's more around design

Jenna Stoner
0:17:21 (0:00:26)

okay I will wrap my head around that a little bit more my other question on the capitol is the cost escalation around the new pickleball courts which feels substantial and staff's recommendation to I think it is to use additional cacs to cover that cost I'm just wondering what other funding sources have been explored and what the driver is of that cost

SPEAKER_15
0:17:47 (0:02:31)

escalation I think that was a two-part question so I think that James story our director of Public Works is available to address the cost aspect and I think that the second portion that you were asking about was the funding aspect we've looked at our overall CAC plan at this stage we have approximately six million dollars in cacs today we have I think about four and a half to five million dollars worth of CAC projects identified in our financial plan today so all of the work that we currently had identified at the recreation center and elsewhere is funded from existing cacs from the money that's currently in the bank and then we will be building that up over time as we move forward so we think that it's reasonable to use the existing values and cacs to pay for this rather than moving funding from one project to another moving project moving funding from Project to project does create risks because if you want to increase the funding here by decreasing the funding in a different project it creates risks based on whatever that other project is and but all that Mr story speak to that we've had more money come in the last two years through cacs than we had anticipated I won't call it a windfall I'll call it more development Revenue than we had forecast so we're in we're in a bit better place now than we were last year when we were projecting how much work we could do using cacs we've probably got an additional million dollars over the last two years in our CAC contribution so we think that it's reasonable to use cacs to continue to pay for these types of projects

Armand Hurford
0:20:18 (0:00:03)

Council Stone are you okay

Jenna Stoner
0:20:21 (0:00:15)

just the my other part of my two-part question in terms what is the driving cost for the escalation yeah I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around spending no almost 700 000 on pickleball

SPEAKER_16
0:20:37 (0:00:56)

courts through the mirror so last year when that original budget was put forward for the pickleball course it only contemplated what the cost of the mat and the cord itself would cost it did not contemplate a location when we finally found a suitable location the additional costs are due to having to do a site survey an environmental review a significant tree clearing and ground improvements and we also put funding in there to build a higher fence with sound attenuation matting on it in order to control the noise and make sure that we did not disturb any future existing residences or businesses and so that is where the primary driver of the cost increases

Armand Hurford
0:21:34 (0:00:03)

you okay for now counselor yep counselor pentagon

Chris Pettingill
0:21:37 (0:01:03)

yeah well along a bit of a similar line I understand you know we found some funding options but for me that's one piece the other piece is fairness to all the other user groups who are looking for more fields and facilities and so on and I'm wondering how we have or how we are reconciling that because it does seem like a significant increase in funding and support for one activity and I'm wondering if it is time to look at reducing scope we you know from where we started this process the scope has massively increased as well as the cost apparently and so I'm feeling some discomfort in terms of fairness to the other user groups I know we have the fields master plan I'm not clear on how that's played into you know understanding these costs and the prioritization and so on I'm just wondering if there's anyone that can speak to that

SPEAKER_16
0:22:41 (0:00:29)

I'll take a brief stab at it since through the mirror there is identified area in the Brandon Park master plan for these courts adjacent to the existing Tennis Courts at Brenton Park so that was contemplated in the master plan as for the rest of your question it would probably be better answered by someone in Recreation

SPEAKER_14
0:23:11 (0:00:05)

through the chair I could possibly answer that could you just repeat it once one more time Council penngill

Chris Pettingill
0:23:17 (0:00:37)

yeah I'm just sort of wondering how we are reconciling these cost escalations for one particular activity we have many demands for fields and support for activities and so on and so it's not just from my perspective not just the funding issue it's a it's a fairness and just wondering how we are again reconciling this significant increase in focus on one activity as opposed to spreading it a little bit around or sort of saying hey do we reduce the scope here and if we have extra funding maybe putting it into moving a couple of the other activities for it as well

SPEAKER_14
0:23:54 (0:01:22)

certainly and I believe Mr story spoke to you with how we got to this cost escalation is that it comes without part of it as far as the sort of the distribution of funds regarding other activities on Renault park lands and Fields master plan site this particular issue as Council was aware was an emerging issue that came out last spring with a bit of a conflict regarding the tennis court users at Eagle winds and the pickleball court that was established there and we made a commitment to the community to relocate those courts and provide a bit of breathing space to do that both groups I guess had what we call this kind of a cooling off period to support the pickable activity that came super popular during the pandemic and has continued to grow and relocate but since then as we've heard the costs have gone up as we determine the new site and we don't see any other competing priorities right now that we're taking away those dollars from the plan itself is funded to the point where we can proceed on the events that are activities that are scheduled in the next five years so it's not taking away from any other time that's proceeding if that answer your question does that

Chris Pettingill
0:25:16 (0:00:11)

help did we not I think I've seen some correspondence around cricket and so on have we put that into our plans for an example

SPEAKER_14
0:25:28 (0:00:16)

yes we are working with the qriket association and establishing a protocol and how to advance some of their plans into the parent Park plans of people's master plan that's correct but there's been no funding requested this time

Chris Pettingill
0:25:44 (0:00:04)

okay I'll ponder that for a second thanks

Armand Hurford
0:25:48 (0:00:47)

thank you I was wondering if someone online earlier in the conversation around the pickleball tennis court part of the funding was to rehabilitate the pickleball downtown into to revert it back to tennis and I'm just wondering as the cost escalations happening here if I believe we landed on that was that was funded and that was going to happen as part of this reconfiguration but if deferring part of that to and maybe that seems like a part that wasn't going to be included initially so perhaps that's this part that could be deferred to sort of help with it the impact of this escalation could someone speak to the to those considerations as we're looking at providing this additional funding

SPEAKER_16
0:26:36 (0:00:26)

I can take that one through the chair yes that was there was there was an additional 50 000 added to that budget to convert the eagle wind courts back to tennis the rough cost estimates I received from the vendors is that cost would be roughly 80 to 90 thousand dollars so yeah that is something that could be considered

Armand Hurford
0:27:03 (0:00:12)

but that currently isn't in the plan I was if it was in I was contemplating how much it was and if it could be removed but that's something that's not currently funded I just don't quite recall where we landed there I thought we yeah go

SPEAKER_16
0:27:15 (0:00:06)

ahead story through the chair yeah I should have been more clear yes that is part of the scope of this funding

Armand Hurford
0:27:22 (0:00:09)

okay thank you for that Clarity of it counselor Hamilton hasn't spoke yet and then I'll go back to

Andrew Hamilton
0:27:32 (0:00:36)

thanks very much through the chair I too am very concerned by this nearly 700 000 for one activity that fraction of our community plays how far into this expenditure are we meaning how much have we spent already and if what is our if we were to change our minds when would be the next what would be the next steps to change our minds on this expenditure

SPEAKER_16
0:28:09 (0:00:52)

I'll through take us out of that one the chair right now we've spent approximately fifty thousand dollars we have the opportunity to change course at any time there's nothing we haven't we don't have commitment beyond that at this point we have not issued any tenders that was subject to this budget amendment so everything is still somewhat negotiable having said that the existing agreement between the Parco strata and pickleball Squamish was that we would they would continue the existing arrangement of reduced hours of Eagle wind until the end of August with the hopes that we would have new pickleball courts in place by that time so that is the only other external consideration

Armand Hurford
0:29:01 (0:00:03)

thank you because our stoner I'm going to go

Jenna Stoner
0:29:05 (0:00:27)

thank you and for that how much work has started on the tennis court rehabilitations and is there any connection with the additional two Courts at Brennan park that's a 350 000 line item in the 2023 budget I'm just wondering if the opportunity to use that budget I appreciate that would have impact on not moving that work forward but I guess my preference would be to use that budget line item as opposed to additional CAC funding

SPEAKER_16
0:29:33 (0:01:06)

right so through the chair those are separate we haven't initiated that work yet that work is going to be tendered out for contract we're hoping we can come in under that significantly but we won't know until the tenders room is received I would I would be very hesitant to recommend removing that those courts have deteriorated to the point where we have safety concerns with people tripping on them they're in pretty rough shape the southern two courts in Brennan as well as Boulevard court and that's what this money was put forward in the budget to do is fund the rehabilitation of those Courts for safety issues and to maintain our assets if we don't do that we would probably have to consider closing those courts until repairs could be made and there is no these additional courts in Brennan were not complete as part of that 350 that was in the future years of The Five-Year Plan

Armand Hurford
0:30:39 (0:00:02)

thank you counselor pettingell

Chris Pettingill
0:30:41 (0:00:09)

yeah can someone remind me how many pickleball courts there were at Eagle Inn versus how many are planned for Brandon Park with the current proposal

SPEAKER_16
0:30:51 (0:00:20)

up through the chair there were six at Eagle winds we're planning for six possibly eight at Brennan Park but based on the survey right now it looks like six will fit there is possibly room to expand but currently we're targeting six

Jenna Stoner
0:31:11 (0:00:01)

hey

Armand Hurford
0:31:13 (0:00:35)

Council will have a chance to question sort of the overall so we'll keep we'll keep moving through the presentation and put it back to you Mr Russell sorry if you're a microphone please Miss Russell

SPEAKER_15
0:31:48 (0:03:06)

the other portion of the budget amendment relates to special operating projects so I'm going to speak about these a little out of the order of what you see here I'm going to talk about the ones towards the bottom first and then we'll loop back we received a grant for from the provincial government to allow us to do some work and some studies with respect to Circular economy so we've included a project in there this is being sponsored by Economic Development the grant is approximately three quarters of that overall value and we're putting forward the remainder the portion that's funded by the district reflects funds that are already in the economic development budget and in-kind contributions so it's not costing us additional money this is something we had contemplated and we're hoping for and we were successful in landing the grant the other two projects airport lands projects this was a miscommunication between departments and they had submitted some paperwork that went missing let's say in the first budget cycle and so were not included they had requested these projects and we simply didn't include them they the airport lands projects will be funded through the airport reserve and therefore will have no Direct Tax input impact and lastly the rafmp real estate facilities master plan pre-development project there are three components to this project one relates to the Innovation Hub which is being championed by economics Economic Development with the assistance of planning and real estate Civic block Municipal Hall discussion which again is being championed by the real estate department and both of those would relate to use of external contractors or Consultants I guess would be the appropriate term and then Brandon Park future facilities plans which would be headed by our director of infrastructure and construction Cal Bragg and we have some additional information with respect to that project that we can provide and I'm hoping someone behind me who I can't see because I don't have a mirror is going to step up to speak to those components thank you Mr plum

SPEAKER_03
0:34:55 (0:02:48)

was hiding behind you there okay thank you mayor council so yeah well we just want to walk you through here is we're on this I'll speak to the Civic block and a little bit to the Innovation area and I'll let perhaps Miss Mulligan speak a little bit on the Innovation area and I'll let Mr Bragg speak to the recreation facilities but we're moving into a bit of a new realm now with the real estate facilities master plan and there's some pretty big decisions that are coming forward the Civic block is something that we've talked about in the rfmp it includes newspaper office space libraries Community spaces I apologize for the acronym of achs is Arts cultural heritage uses and we've talked about co-locations in the Civic walk with I people at the school district other government agencies the recreation facilities obviously there's still some work to be done around the Brenner Park in terms of the pool the rank in the wellness center and possibly how satellite locations might fit in with that and we're also looking at the possible ability or we want to explore the possibility to create what we call an innovation area in the business park on our land there I lost 38.39 so this a lot of this work that we need to do to make these decisions come forward and we want to get these and hopefully embedded in the financial plan as soon as we can it requires a different level of expertise than what we have in-house we need to bring in and use planning folks Architects engineering significant consultants and financial estimators to help us really Drive these decisions to the finish line and the goal is to get to a place where we can make a final decision on the municipal offices and know how that fits into a broader Civic block we want to be able to get to a point where we've got the scope and the funding and how we're going to move forward within the location of like The Rinks and the pool and how that all fits we could fit together at Granite Park and we want to be able to come forward and bring those decisions and move them forward in a meaningful way so we want to bring these folks in do the work so that we have great confidence in the decisions that we're making and get that work done and in order to hopefully bring that forward into 2024 or five year financial plan budget process and basically eliminate through this process any further work analysis worker thinking about these facilities that will get them to a point where we're making decisions or making recommendations where they fit and they won't have to be analyzed over and over again and if we're able to move forward with this project as well a lot of the work we're doing or we'll be doing in this process it is development oriented work and so it's information that we can reuse as we actually move into implementing several of these projects in time as they get implemented so yeah so that's sort of a high level and I'll turn it back to council yeah

Armand Hurford
0:37:43 (0:00:49)

thank you I mean we'll try to get through the whole the the three pieces on the side I think we had Miss Mulligan for the for the Innovation area and then we can answer questions around all of them if that works for Stuff I thought it was the next piece but that's okay we can do questions on this piece and then we can go to if there's other pieces does he get him grouped yeah or is there not another piece sorry I thought there was a I think you had three pieces there and Mr pump's piece was one and sir

SPEAKER_03
0:38:33 (0:00:09)

I ended up kind of hitting the high notes on all of them but that's also have specific questions about them that we can bring in Mr Bragg and Miss Mulligan I wasn't sure whether there's another slide coming in the slide

Armand Hurford
0:38:42 (0:00:22)

okay no that's fine I wasn't sure either okay so Council on this on these pieces questions no questions on these pieces okay oh cancer start

Jenna Stoner
0:39:04 (0:00:22)

yeah sorry can you just reiterate the time sensitivity and the realistic nature of getting this done before like we start 2024 Financial Planning in a few months and so what is the just thinking of this is like a budget amendment why would this not be considered in the 2024 budget as opposed to putting it in now

SPEAKER_03
0:39:27 (0:00:51)

thank you for the question well actually the 2024 Finance five-year financial plan is actually probably a mistake on our part that's this is getting this organized for the 2024 session and not this session coming 23 this is to get ourselves in position to do the work in 2024 July of 2024 to bring these recommendations forward so that work needs to happen over the course of this year because it we won't we don't have time this year to do this work prior to the July 2023 budget cycle for a 2024. so what we're proposing is to start this work now it'll get done over the balance of this year and all the analysis we don't know about announced this year to get ourselves ready to come to Council in 2024 for The Five-Year Plan that follows that budget so it's a bit of a labeling issue there

Armand Hurford
0:40:18 (0:00:28)

I'll follow up on that I think the quote the question also is the urgency between like the actual time required to the to do this work so do we need to have this in now to achieve to achieve that goal is that actually the length of work length of time required to perform to perform this work do we need that long Runway and I think that's what you're looking to be sold on Counselor Center and me I am anyways and I think that's what you were getting at as well

SPEAKER_03
0:40:47 (0:01:55)

so Theory correct there there's a fair chunk of work that needs to be done here there's a lot of detailed analysis that needs to be done you know and situations like municipal offices there the locations haven't been picked yet there's a lot of decisions on how to finally it's in the financial plan right now as a placeholder for release but there's a fair level of detail analysis still needs to happen there and we're also working with the school district and figuring out how that can be coordinated so that work is not work that we can complete in the short order it's going to take us the balance of this year to work through all of that we also have to do bring in a fair bit of detail work on Brennan Park to make sure everything can fit there on the land and how it can coordinate with other facilities that are there and likewise with the feasibility study for the Innovation area there's a fair bit of work to be done to figure out how this how that can move forward and whether it's even viable to bring that to fruition so that work is we do need the runway through to get to we need to the runway to get this forward to bring this forward in 2024 it's going to take us about eight months to a year to bring that analysis to its conclusion the sensitivity is what we really when we said time sensitivity on the slide what we don't want it what we want to do is be in a position to start bringing other projects into the back end of The Five-Year Plan currently right now municipal offices is in The Five-Year Plan as a placeholder but there's no other facilities in there right now on Brennan Park other than the work that's in there now for the sustainability type work so the pool of the rank of the wellness center those are not in The Five-Year Plan we want to be getting starting to get those Into The Five-Year Plan so by us bringing these folks in to help us get to a decision point in the next year we can be in a position start making recommendations for The Five-Year Plan what we're learning is every year we delay on getting facilities Advanced costs seem to be have gone up significantly so we want to keep moving projects Into The Five-Year Plan as much as we can

Armand Hurford
0:42:42 (0:00:08)

thank you Pastor penangel did I see your hand yes no council Hamilton

Andrew Hamilton
0:42:50 (0:01:08)

yeah thanks very much and thanks very much for all the work you do in putting these really complex projects and plans together I'm concerned about the amount of money we're proposing to spend here on the planning for two pro two major projects potentially three without in my mind a clear pathway to push them all forward at the same time in a timely manner I have significant concern that we're going to be spending half of this funding on plans that are going to go out of date because we haven't been able to we were we weren't able to get the funding together in time I think that it may be a time for us to make a hard decision in One Direction or another before spending that much money on Architects and Engineers on designing buildings thanks

Armand Hurford
0:43:58 (0:00:02)

any other quick go ahead counselor

Jenna Stoner
0:44:00 (0:00:20)

Yeah question to follow that comment are there is it the same people that were hiring to do all three of these are their cost savings and doing all three at the same time or is there a reason why we're advancing all three at the same time

SPEAKER_03
0:44:21 (0:02:15)

thank you so in terms of the doing them at the same time yeah the what we learned in the real estate facilities master plan is the decisions that we make around the Civic block especially around municipal offices will have an impact on Cash Land reserves tip boring capacity and that will impact other projects that weren't prioritized ahead of that which is that the recreation facilities in the master plan so the decisions we make around the Civic block have an impact on the recreation facilities the decisions we make on the recreation facilities could impact the decisions on how we move forward with the Civic Bloc so we see them as they're connected and so we feel that it would be very difficult for us to make final decisions on these projects especially for the Civic blog which the municipal offices were prioritized ahead on without looking at how the impacts are and so we see them need to be assessed at the same time and if you feel that Council will be in the best position to make a final decision on what to do with the municipal offices and how to bring the decisions in on things like Brennan park into the financial plan when they can see the whole picture and they can have an analysis that says if we do this it impacts over here if we do this over here it impacts over there they're all connected so we feel it's really important that we do them together at the same time to so that you'll have the best information to make the decision that you that you're going to have to make there may be some possibilities to do some cost sharing the Civic block and The Innovation area is very Planning Development or more oriented the work that's to be proposed to be done at the recreation facility side of things is more nuts and bolts it's more Architects designs Engineers how do we put this on this piece of land how do we make it fit the decision making on the Civic block still is evaluating different locations doing analysis around which is financially the best location from a planning perspective which opportunities might exist in the Civic block and how to organize that so it's more it's a different animal but there may be some but they are very distinct projects it's just we want to bring them together at the same time

Armand Hurford
0:46:37 (0:00:06)

so I miss Glenda do you want or where do you want me to go would you like to comment on this or do you want me to

SPEAKER_10
0:46:44 (0:00:14)

put I Cal Mr Cal Bragg is on the line and I believe he can speak in detail to the recreation or the Brennan Park work that is approximately half of this amount and I think that would help Council as well with the information

Armand Hurford
0:46:58 (0:00:01)

okay thank

SPEAKER_01
0:47:00 (0:02:16)

you good afternoon mayor and Council I'll give some hard examples of where we're sitting and Neil actually touched on a point which is the nuts and bolts and I think we need some clarity between feasibility work whereas it's correct it does go out of date compared to say pre-development work and for us pre-development work um you know servos geotechnicalize bits and pieces you know some of the hard examples that work on at the moment is the splash park and playground and where this fits in so we've got the lands and field master plan which was an overview we're getting down to the details of literally choosing locations of where things can go so you know we're the splash park and play around goes we need to look at where that sits in correlation to the Future pool where that's going to sit where it sits in correlation to the ice rink and how it works with the mechanical rooms and where we can get some economies of scale and capture opportunities you know how do people move around the site and then how do they interact with the main facility so we need additional work here to make sure that what we do now things are in the right spot so we don't have to redo any work in the future another one say civil engineering we'll be looking at the grant one number one works which stage one work we're also with civil engineering with the utilities and all the you know for electrical and water and sewer and everything that's coming into the building do we have enough for the actual future stages of the project itself you know it's not ideal to hire a consultant just to do one corner of the work of the building when we've got so many more future stages coming in here um the other ones are Arts culture and Heritage and this is a specific example so if we're going to create gallery or maker space in the facility which is what we're aiming for you know how does this get locked off after hours for recreation for a very specific example and then also parking you know do we want the wellness center in a certain area or is it going to be on site is it going to be off-site and how does any future parking you know even right down to you know the electrical charging base so all this work that we're doing is involving Geotech is involving surveyors is involving soil consultants and getting in to do this work so we know what goes where for the future because we've got one chance to do a really good design job on this community Hub and we need to do this work regardless so it's from the nuts and bolts that's where it's looking for from Recreation

Armand Hurford
0:49:16 (0:00:05)

thank you that's helpful any question yeah go ahead customer pick

Chris Pettingill
0:49:22 (0:00:19)

so just so I'm understanding the interaction between the three sub projects is largely a financial one unless I'm mistaken maybe I'll start there is it that's the primary interaction between the threes is the financial impacts of one on the other

SPEAKER_04
0:49:42 (0:00:02)

three

SPEAKER_15
0:49:44 (0:02:50)

anyways I'll answer that they're they are tied together to a certain degree from a financial perspective we are going to require additional funding for facilities as we move into the future and we do need to have a better understanding of what our land assets are and how we can best utilize those land assets to generate funding as we move forward and so part of the process of The Innovation Hub is to would be to understand better what lands we have there how we could build an Innovation Hub and what might be available for us to use for other purposes and those other purposes would include financing future Capital Investments whether those Capital Investments be specific facilities such as public works or whether they will be future facilities such as Recreation or Civic block Municipal Hall so from that standpoint there is a financial aspect of all three of these together we know that there's a lot of money that's going to be tied up in these three I'll say the specifics of these three but once you start looking at what the results of these three initiatives are going to generate probably looking at you know north of 150 million dollars right so yes there definitely is a significant Financial um component to what we're undertaking here we want to know what it is that we need to build we want to know how much it's going to cost so that we can try to figure out how we would be able to go about doing that how we could best Finance such a plan and if we don't know what all the various components are it would be very difficult for us to create a plan that goes 5 10 15 20 years into the future that allows us to adequately and sustainably manage these various projects you know we need to know what it is that we need to build and we need to have a pretty good idea what it's going to cost to do so and then we can try to figure out how we would go about paying for all that so yeah definite Financial lens involved

SPEAKER_03
0:52:35 (0:01:43)

go ahead Mr Plum Mr Universe may add to that just to kind of reiterate what I said earlier when we did the real estate facilities master plan we ran through several funding illustrations um they're in the back of the analysis and didn't always get read by everybody but the reality it was what we learned through that process was that we can't unfortunately we're not in a position where we can make any real decision any significant decisions when we get to this level of the project of the implementation of the master plan in isolation what we do every decision we make now has impacts on other facilities that was part of the reason why we did the prioritization that we did we recognized that there were certain facilities up front like the far halls in the public works that absolutely had to go get through it and get rebuilt and replaced and the decision making around those was very linear one after another this now we're getting into a realm where the decisions that we're making for all of these situations all Impact each other and so to put you folks in the best place to make these decisions that are coming up that need to be made in the next couple years and the final five year financial plan we want to be able to show you clearly the impacts of making a decision around the Civic block and what it means for Brenham park or the rec facilities or vice versa because there will be impacts depending on which paths we follow and we want to be able to clearly articulate how what decision over here impacts over there so that when you're making that decision you understand and we can also maybe explain to the community clearly as well when those decisions are being made what the impacts could be so they are intrinsically tied together from a financial perspective as well yeah

Armand Hurford
0:54:18 (0:00:20)

thank you any Council any further any further questions and counselor Stoner has left what she's called in so as she's got some Council related travel on the Goku I just wanted to check with counselor star that we can that it's working and we you can hear us and we can hear you before we

Jenna Stoner
0:54:38 (0:00:01)

hi there I can hear you

Armand Hurford
0:54:40 (0:00:08)

great okay thank you I trust you'll get my attention when it's when it's needed and I'll put you on the speakers list go ahead counselor pen and go

Chris Pettingill
0:54:49 (0:01:13)

yeah so following up on that and I guess that aligns with my understanding but it does seem like from what we've heard the wreck and Facilities piece of this is at a more granular level of detail and so I guess in my possibly naive mind sort of order of magnitude of a rink versus a pool and so on is what we need to kind of think about contemplate the financial impacts between these three projects and then the more granular detail about where does a specific you know piece of infrastructure on Brennan park lands go is a more granular level detail which you know is maybe more detail than we need to move the other two pieces forward unless I'm misunderstanding something and I guess you know I understand too the community is very eager to see more things sooner at Brennan Park but I'm you know thinking about our capacity to actually move things forward and so I wonder if we sort of proceed with Brenham park at a at the more macro level of order of magnitude of a ring and how that interacts or do we need to go to this more specific detail this year

SPEAKER_03
0:56:02 (0:00:38)

too so I could perhaps let Mr Bragg answer that in a second but in terms of the other things like the Civic block we need to get into a fairly granular level as well the sites a bit sites are a bit smaller but for just making decisions on the municipal offices for example we need to understand clearly what the development potential of this property is so we will be working with similar people we won't be getting right down to the exact same level we might be getting at Brennan park because we have to figure out things that together but we will also be doing a very detailed analysis on that as well so there's a there's a fair level detail to get into on all fronts to get to the decision point and I don't know if Cal if you want to add into that

SPEAKER_01
0:56:40 (0:00:44)

yeah through the chair um I think it's I'm going to try and answer this simply um if we just focus on one part of Brennan Park we've got the grant number one renovation work going on right now and it's successful we've got the next Grant coming up as well in the next few months and if we don't design and allow for these properly we're going to have add-ons because we're trying to retrofit an existing building and if we don't think about certain areas um it's not going to be the product that it can be and staff are concerned that we're just renovating one little corner but there's also other areas that have been left on the on the sidelines so this is this is part of all bringing it all together and creating a real Recreation Center that works functionally

Armand Hurford
0:57:25 (0:00:04)

thank you for that councilor Hamilton

Andrew Hamilton
0:57:29 (0:00:36)

so I'm going to come back to the piece I'm struggling with and maybe I'll try to ask a question more directly do you see any path forward within The Five-Year Plan that both of these projects can be moved forward both and when I say both I mean the Civic Hall and Brennan Park Renovations is there you said it's like 150 million dollars is what we're talking about do we see any plan to potentially be able to have and spend that money

SPEAKER_03
0:58:06 (0:00:16)

through we don't have that plan right now but this work is going to get us there that's why we want to do this work is to be able to lay that plan out we don't have that plan right now because we still have sorry can you go ahead if you want to chime in

Andrew Hamilton
0:58:22 (0:00:07)

sorry I mean I mean the plan to have the money I don't understand where the money's coming from

SPEAKER_03
0:58:30 (0:01:19)

sorry so in terms of the what we've learned through this process as well is that to move forward the Civic block Parts like the library the community space the Brennan Park projects the pool the ice rink and wall Center we don't have the cash and the boring capacity today to move all those projects forward what we learned in the master plan was that we will need a significant amount of external funding whether that comes from sponsorships external grants Partnerships whether entities like slrd or potentially private operators we have to pull all of that together to move everything forward so one of the reasons why we want to do this work is by finalizing hopefully once and for all with the scope and of the of these facilities are going to look like especially at Brandt park it allows us to go out and start looking towards fundraising as well externally and figuring out but it's hard to go externally to look for money when they don't we don't have a project so a lot of the work we're talking about doing around the breakfast facilities is finalizing scope and working with end users and stakeholders to kind of get to that place where we have a scope designed so we can go out and see what kind of external funding is out there but as it sits today no we do not have enough financial capacity to move all these projects into the financial plan right now thank you

Armand Hurford
0:59:50 (0:00:04)

thank you I have counselor stoner

Jenna Stoner
0:59:54 (0:00:41)

yeah thank you be the chair I think in the spring Amendment so I think one of the things that we did in terms of trying to move the budget forward was to try and be cognizant about not putting too much into the spring Amendment and not just it being an opportunity to reopen a budget and I'm having a hard time contextualizing this amongst other requests that may come forward and the timing of it so I guess my question is back to like the urgency factor and why this is coming in the spring Amendment and not as part of the 24 budget consideration

SPEAKER_03
1:00:36 (0:00:50)

I'll start thanks um yeah so it didn't make it into the last year's budget because we weren't we hadn't connected all these dots at this point in time like a year ago last July this is a snare that emerged since then and then we started to realize that this was emerging here and that we think this is how we needed to move this forward and the reason we didn't want to bring it forward in the next budget cycle is it wouldn't allow us to do this work this year and so we don't have any budget to move this analysis forward in 23. so we want to move this analysis forward in 23 so that we can come into 2024 July of 2024's budget process and make recommendations there's not enough time in 2024 in our opinion to do all this analysis and get it ready for the July 2024 summer budget session

SPEAKER_15
1:01:27 (0:02:34)

if I could add to that through the chair we have a long term sorry a long-term financial model that we are using we've been working with a consultant to update that model and we're in coordination with our new budget model that we've just implemented we hope to be creating a draft in 2020 for use this year this summer of that longer term model but the longer plan is to use that 10 to 15 to 20 year model to incorporate all of our existing financial plan capital projects and financial plan capital projects that are over the horizon so those that are between years say six and ten you know 10 to 15 within this model that is the model that we will be using to address some of the concerns that for example counselor Hamilton brought up with how are we going to pay for all this we have a model to plug all this information into if we do this process today we will have the results from what all these various projects cost in a timely enough manner to put those into our long-term model and bring that back to you as part of the 2025 process and in 2024 as part of the 2025 financial planning process that's from a from a financing and long-term modeling perspective that's the other reason we would like to see this project go forward today we don't think that we would be able to get this information and incorporated into a model that will allow us to see what all the moving piece pieces look like and what the options would be for financing this and be able to bring it to you next year in a timely manner if the work were not to take place now or shortly so we have some concerns about that be able to tie those two together

Armand Hurford
1:04:02 (0:00:07)

thank you for that counselors counselor star do you have a follow-up your hand is still raised

Jenna Stoner
1:04:09 (0:00:02)

oh no let me lower my hand thanks

Armand Hurford
1:04:11 (0:00:05)

yeah okay no that's great thank you councilor Hamilton

Andrew Hamilton
1:04:16 (0:01:06)

yeah thanks and I guess I'm trying to I'm trying to realize what some of my reservations are what some of my underlying reservations are about this plan and I think that part of it is that I've lost quite a lot of confidence in our ability and not just our ability in the ability humanity is not the district's ability to forecast costs we've seen extraordinary cost escalations on very short time scales so I'm struggling to see the value of finding figuring out where the electric car chargers go at Brennan Park in order for us to cost that out when we don't have a way to pay for it so that those cost escalation those cost estimates I can't see how they're valuable when they're coming so far ahead of the expenditure

Armand Hurford
1:05:22 (0:00:03)

Miss Glenda

SPEAKER_10
1:05:26 (0:01:59)

thank you for that and in order to like an example I can give is grant opportunities come up for Brennan Park as an example and we can't go after them because we don't have a plan or a project for them I can appreciate the uncertainty of forecasting costs and that's just a reality that we're in we find ourselves at this Crux right now because we are decades behind looking after our facilities and the fear that we have as staff is you know Brennan Park is woefully under servicing our community now Municipal Hall we've run out of space for staff in the offices if the roof goes we don't have an option like we are getting close to that place without a solid plan the next step of how do we fund it what grants what are our options we cannot move this facility plan forward and I do appreciate that eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars is in and of itself a large peace of money chunk of cash for lack of a better expression it doesn't affect taxation this year we have found funding for it relative to the investment that the district has to do and our facilities master plan to deliver on those core facilities it's actually a reasonable amount of money against that that's that magnitude of project I do appreciate it it's difficult to wrap our heads around but a courageous decision to plan is what allows us to deliver in the future and there's never a good time to spend money on a plan but we'll never be able to deliver if we don't plan and that's why this is before you today

Armand Hurford
1:07:25 (0:00:08)

thank you for that con context okay Mr pump

SPEAKER_03
1:07:34 (0:01:09)

microphone please sorry I'm always reluctant to follow but after the CIO after a commentary but I think the thing to keep in mind is the actual cost estimating component of this work is a relatively small percentage of the overall work that we're doing here we're bringing in the the design work and the architectural work and all that work likely will still validly be usable as we move into the future the actual cost components of it is a relatively small percentage of the overall budget that we're looking at and that if it requires the cost components need to be updated at a later date those can be updated at a pretty nominal amount the bulk of the money is being spent on creating the framework for the decision the consideration points of the decision and how the decisions are going to be laid out and how they impact each other at this point in time and so I just wanted to bring that last layer into that and appreciate what you're saying here in terms of the cost side of it but it isn't the bulk I'm not sure Cal if you can express how much from the Brenham Park perspective you've put into that equation for cost Consultants but it's fairly nominal in the grand scheme of things is not

SPEAKER_01
1:08:44 (0:00:07)

through the chair it was 400 000 in total with 75 000 contingency

SPEAKER_03
1:08:51 (0:00:05)

but how much of that 400 000 is actual cost estimating

SPEAKER_01
1:08:57 (0:00:10)

fifteen thousand

Armand Hurford
1:09:07 (0:00:09)

Mr peachly I saw your hand up earlier was that is that have your comments been addressed or would you like to add something to the

SPEAKER_14
1:09:16 (0:01:00)

I appreciate Theo Glendale just bringing a summary to the overall perspective the only thing I wanted to add was the just the piece around the gray and they're planning on the Brandon Park site Mr Bragg spoke to some specific items and I think the question was very important to kind of follow up on that do we need to get down to that level at this point and can or can we wait the reality is the fields components that we're trying to build out all interconnect to the actual Hub of the Brainerd Park site so the mechanical components Electro Etc we're trying to create efficiencies right now and laying those out so that we as we build up the land side of it and they're already starting to come into the but the five-year budget cycle right now we're actually doing in proper order and effective use of our consultants and infrastructure Investments so that's why we have to get to some of those detail levels maybe Mr Bragg you might want to add some if I missed nothing

SPEAKER_01
1:10:16 (0:00:02)

to add just supposedly

Armand Hurford
1:10:19 (0:00:33)

okay thank you Council we are this is an important part of the of the of the overall but we are looking to make some progress on the to consider readings for the for the amendment so we need we're running a little behind time so if we could move to that portion that's where that's where we need that's where we need to be go ahead yeah you'll be on the list after counselor pettingell counselor Center

Chris Pettingill
1:10:53 (0:00:48)

so I just want to check because it's been mentioned so my maybe misunderstanding had been a few things like Splash Pad where moving forward in the near term what I'm sort of hearing is that we need to um get some of this planning work done in terms of where the pumps go and all that to make that happen I'm just wondering are those pieces actually moving forward and then this work will just plan the remainder around it and we're going to make some very short-term decisions or are we sort of taking a step back saying no we actually do need to sort of plan out the whole site and so this you know four hundred thousand dollars for Brennan Park in particular that does have to happen first in the near term and then we can start moving on some of these smaller aspects of Brennan Park

SPEAKER_01
1:11:41 (0:00:35)

through the chair I mean looking backwards in this we don't want to put the pool in the wrong spot if we find in the future that we could have put it in a different spot that worked better for people movement that's more economical that fits with you know economies of scale by having a central walkway and better common space and just better design we need to plan that now we can't piecemeal the plan of a whole area you need to look at it from an overview so the things need to be located in the in their right location as we move forward now

Armand Hurford
1:12:17 (0:00:04)

thank you counselor stoner

Jenna Stoner
1:12:21 (0:00:33)

yeah thank you to the chair the pickleball courts and I heard that part of the cost for the new location is a sound attenuation wall which was something that we had talked about a little bit at the current location and I'm just wondering if that might be a more reasonable solution as we just put in a sound attenuation wall at the Eagle wind courts as opposed to relocating them and if that's been considered as part of the context of the cost escalation

Armand Hurford
1:12:55 (0:00:21)

from my from my recollection the Senate attenuation at the current site wasn't going to be effective given the proximity and the height of the buildings adjacent but I'm curious to get I will get a staff comment on that as well if someone's online can comment on that

SPEAKER_14
1:13:16 (0:00:10)

Mr story can you speak to it or if not James are you there I can follow up

Armand Hurford
1:13:26 (0:00:01)

I think Mr

Andrew Hamilton
1:13:27 (0:00:00)

Braddock I saw

Armand Hurford
1:13:28 (0:00:07)

a hand in the air whoever would like it to go ahead over to staff

SPEAKER_16
1:13:36 (0:00:05)

can you repeat that question just for me I was on technical difficulties

Jenna Stoner
1:13:41 (0:00:18)

yeah no problem it was just asking about the concept of putting a sound attenuation while at the current Eagle wind pickerball Court location as an effort to try and mitigate the cost escalations so as opposed to relocating

SPEAKER_16
1:14:00 (0:00:26)

we could we could do some investigative work on that through the chair yes the issue is the proximity of the strata to the courts and the height of the height of the wall would have to be in order to actually block the sound effectively it may not be it may not be realistic to do that

Armand Hurford
1:14:27 (0:00:05)

thank you was there another additional response from Mr paigley was that your hand

SPEAKER_14
1:14:32 (0:00:23)

the chair just to actually reinforce to actually Mary you're correct in the sound engineer identified that just because the height of the proximity of the building that's close to the courts it's virtually impossible to really have any positive impact on decibels that would be reduced by any kind of Sound Engineering that we'd put in there

Armand Hurford
1:14:56 (0:00:03)

thank you for that context

Chris Pettingill
1:14:59 (0:00:36)

yeah just I ride by there frequently in the where I see I believe the Court's going the highway noise is significant and so I wonder if we actually need sound attenuation or if it's you know no attenuation be drowned out by the highway anyway so I guess have we done measurements or what's driving is it more sort of you know we've been burned once about sound and we're being extra cautious or do we know we actually really need to attenuate sound in the Brennan Park location

SPEAKER_16
1:15:35 (0:00:40)

so to the chair um yeah good question counselor pettinggill we haven't done detailed sound studies but we did recognize the sound of the of the highway is significant and that was part of that contributing reason for selecting that site as well as it is on a truck route but yes primarily the concern is we don't want a repeat of Eagle wind and the sound of the pickleball play is quite high pitched and does travel it is somewhat airing on the side of caution but yes you would be correct

Armand Hurford
1:16:16 (0:00:00)

go ahead

Chris Pettingill
1:16:16 (0:00:27)

counselor Pentagon so I'm wondering because I also I think some I saw some people playing pickleball on the tennis courts and I had the ability to a b that to the highway and I guess I didn't it didn't strike me as there needed to be attenuation there I wonder if that is something that needs to be done from day one or could we do sort of the courts and the sound attenuation could be a future year and a future budget

SPEAKER_16
1:16:44 (0:00:32)

through the Cherry yes it could be deferred the actual cost of the matting itself was estimated to be around 55 000. the cost of the fencing could be reduced if it was not quite as high if we put in a six foot fence instead of a ten foot fence but then we would have to rebuild that if we did need the sound attenuation so it would result in maybe a 50 000 savings

Armand Hurford
1:17:16 (0:03:25)

thank you after my comments on this piece I've visited a few pickleball courts and it's a the noise associated with them is something that's um becoming evidence if as the sport as the sport grows and it's not just from the adjacent residence where this there will be residents adjacent to this but it's also from the other from the other user group so even some quite isolated pickleball courts that are generally put in close to tennis courts have the